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Grouper
 
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| Someone who fishes the pier regularly can give you more detail but I think most of the guys out there use 15-17 lb mono to kingfish with. You just can't throw a cigar minnow with 30 lb. I don't know about braid but I would think some of them use that too, just for the casting distance. bb, I guess I haven't kept up with some of the new fancy hooks and stuff for mackerel fishing, I'm sure they've made some advances with some products. We used the eagle claw 1/0 4x treble, it's the same one I and a few other people use to cobia fish with and have never had a problem with them bending or failing as far as I remember. I have noticed that some people are going to a 3 hook rig even with regular hardtails, seems to be working fine. Heck we caught a pile of fish on a single 6/0 long shank eagle claw we used to run as a short bait, the two biggest that I recall weighed 49.96 lbs and 54.40 lbs. All the other fish over 50 we weighed in tournaments were caught on the regular two treble rig. And we never did catch one over 50 on a big bait three treble rig for a bluefish/spanish, which kinda surprises me. One tournament I fished with Crieghton Parker we caught a pair of 50 lb twins one day the one we weighed was 52.80 and we fished with a #2 in the front and a #1 in the back, we finished second in the division that year with the smaller hooks and 25 lb line. I've seen people who were successful use REALLY big tackle and REALLY small tackle, whatever works best for your style I guess. Kinda get excited talking about mackerel tournaments again, too bad gas is so high, sure was a lot of fun.
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Snapper
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| Light, light, light, pressure. (especially when you get the fish near the boat). Light pressure will also keep the king near the surface.
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| Backlash, as you know, there is a ton of experience on this forum and most are willing to offer up advice on how it's done.......a couple of yrs ago there is no way I would have offered up how I was rigging for tournaments on a open forum but that's kind of changed. As we started to place in a few, consistently get better and have fun, so did my view towards tournament fishing. I started just like you in the corner of a charter boat and on the pier trying to find what works. Try things out, see what works the best for you and most importantly, the way you enjoy it the most and within your budget. There is really no all knowing best way to do this stuff. I've seen guys go out there and catch the biggest king of their life using a 9/0 with braid, 100# mono leader and 9/0 circle that beat every fish caught in a tournament happening the same day. Sometimes it's just your day...... Matt, when I first started this we we're no where near the level you and Rag-Tag we're at and I still started to get bored with the tournaments and prepping. I really don't like all of the whispering, two faced deception stuff that's still going on around the tournaments but it's part of it, I just choose not to be that way. My partner and I made some changes a few yrs ago and now I still get excited just prepping for tournaments. My partner and I kinda took a different approach to kingfishing the last two years that has made a huge difference for us. We don't fish against other teams anymore and trying to beat a specific team or find out what or where a certain angler is going.... We fish against ourselves and how we did before, we also both started fishing a lot more with our daughters and they are now our primary anglers. It's gotten to the point that I would be happy with never touching a rod again and watching my daughter on the bow with a big fish. Because of this, I get alot more time to watch what's working and what's not and how I can do things better. For whatever reason, with the changes we've made, we have seen some of the biggest fish and consistently more large fish coming to the boat than we've ever seen before. now that we've finally found a combination that works well for us and we're having fun at it, it's getting so expensive that we can't hardly afford to do it. I'm seeing fewer boats in just about every tournament so far this year. I'm just hoping that we can continue to do what we're doing with our kids for at least a few more years but I just don't see it happening short of one of us winning the lottery.
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White Marlin
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Grouper
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I hear ya! It is very expensive, I haven't fished one in a couple years now. Maybe in the future it will become more cost effective, sure was a lot of fun.
Please do not support any of the captains or vessels on the list below. They support the SOS plan and intend to lie to you and steal from you so that they can stay fat and happy.
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Snapper
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| Off the pier, I would definitley use 20lb. or less for kings. Trilene big game is a very reliable and tough line but there are other lines that lay better on the spool and cast better.
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the way cost's have been going lately, I've often thought what my odd's might be doing laps around the no#1 bouy. you better watch out pier guys, if I start seeing a bunch of reports of consistently big fish from the pier, I'm liable to start making ya'll one of my routine tournament stops...........outside of jig range of course 
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Mingo
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Come on down to the pier Scott, that way i can get a up close of those rigs you make
Lg. Pier Cart / Pulled By 45 Y/O 
Fish to Live & Live to Fish
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Mingo
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Strictly Bizness (6/30/2008)
we have had some wire failures lately too... i can't quite place my finger on why though.. We use to have the same problem and our best fix has been to switch to stranded wire. Don't get me wrong, there is still a time and place for single strand. Like when the fish are finiky or the water is clear, etc. But, we have had no decrease in hook-ups and probably get more fish to the boat than before we started using it.
That's Right!! Fishing Team
31' Cape Horn
Evinrude E-tecs
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Snapper
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| Looking at that reel it looks like it will hold 250/25. In my opinion a lot of line and a good drag are the two most important things when fishing for kings, no matter how you are fishing for them. They don't call them "smokers" for nothing, they will DUMP a reel very fast on the first run. With that reel I would go no less than 15 and no more than 20 to get as much line on the reel as possible. What you might do is go with a 100yrds or so of 25 or 30 to be able to manhandle the fish a little bit once you get her near the pier. Again, this is just my opinion.
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Grouper
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can stranded wire be haywire twisted or does it have to be crimped with a sleeve? i have never tried it or worked with it before.
Team Hit Man (crew)/ 31 Cape Horn
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White Marlin
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ill leave that question for Scott to answer for sure....but i would only crimp it with a double barrell....but what do i know
   
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Grouper
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you know how to choose damn fine boats. that's for sure.
Team Hit Man (crew)/ 31 Cape Horn
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Grouper
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i have never liked seven strand wire and stopped using it a lot of yr's ago but in talking with several friends, many of them have been seeing single strand wire problems lately and have either already switched or are switching to seven strand
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Snapper
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| I snell both the stinger and nose hook.....use 90# 7-strand.....then a figure 8 knot on the swivel.....pix soon.... George
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Sailfish
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very informative thread...
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Snapper
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 Hope this helps!!! George
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Mingo
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We use the same setup as Speculator with the exception we mostly use 60# wire, but do sometimes use 90#. The other difference is we crimp the swivel. The snell we use is a little different than what I tie for a mono snell but is very close to the same knot.
That's Right!! Fishing Team
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Snapper
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| Have had too many bite thru's with 60#, so switched to 90#. George
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Mingo
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We must be living right, or not catching the monsters you guys do. 
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Snapper
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| I have fished king tournaments for 25 years and almost exclusively use 7 strand 60# leader material in our area. We will jump up to 90 during early morning hours or if it is very cloudy and the water clarity is not that good. On the Atlantic coast you have to fish with much lighter wire or you will almost never get a strike. I have seen Clayton Kirby, (Team Fountain), fish with 18lb. leader material in the Jacksonville king tournament. The key here is to use lighter line and put almost zero pressure on the fish. We have almost never lost a fish with 60lb. leader material in our area but we do retie and/or switch out leaders often when fishing a tournament. Again, lighter pressure will definitely prevent a lot of leader breaks.
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Sailfish
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Scott do you use the same rig when you are using skirts or just for live bait?
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I haven't used a skirt in about a yr and a half but normally keep a few in the box to change things up if for some reason we just can't buy a bite
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Ruby Red Lip
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Allot of truly great information on this string. Like Scott mentioned, we have caught many kings, from smokers to snakes; that come up with a rare few having the lead hook in their mouth. They tend to strike baits from the center back and with ribbonfish, they always have a string of hooks on their side. This causes most Kingfish anglers to use a lighter drag because the hooks pull much easier than they would if hooked in the mouth. In fact, an experience angler maintaining a constant amount of pull on the rod can many times you can feel them pull.
Whether using a heavier drag setting or light, a jerky(anxious) pull on the rod is the prime thing that causes people to lose their fish. Letting the fish run with a light drag tires them to where you could have that steady pull up on the rod and reel the line back on the reel always paying particular attention to keeping the line tight on the way down. Many times you only get 1 or 2 winds of the reel handle. This is the reason for the higher speed reels, to get back as much line as possible on every crank of the handle.
The danger of letting a fish run (smokers) is the angle between the fish and the rod, tailwhip; the more they run the closer the line is to their bodies. With kings, most anglers attempt to keep the line profile down as much as possible and use as little as 20lb test which causes many "Tailwhips" or cutting of the line by the Kings very fast and hard tail. Like Scott said, advancements in fishing have been key, Flourocarbon is a wonderful thing! You can use up to a 40 or 50 lb Flourocarbon line without fear of the fish really getting "leader shy" as the saying goes. Key here is to pick-up the other lines quickly and chase that fish down and get as close to over the top without running them over(been there to). They really the like props as they approach the boat!!!
This post brings up a good point with seven strand. It has a higher signature in the water, but is reusable and doesn't kink as easily. Do you have to use a 90# cable to get the job done, ah; maybe not. Is it necessarily a bad thing, evidently it's not a show stopper as the people on this string that are using it have done incredibly well....kudus to you by the way...something to look at, it certainly doesn't kink easily. I would tend to think that a 50 or 60 lb cable would do the job with little worry of kinking the wire and while reducing the visibility. Kinking of the wire is the single reason to maintain a steady amount of pressure on the fish. Would I go to a 90# wire to do a test, probably not; your using a 20 - 30 lb line and even a king won't cut through a 50 or 60 seven strand cable as easily due to the flex in the cable. Either way slack is a bad thing. Slack the line for a moment and the single strand will loop itself in a heartbeat due to the amount of pressure being place on it, especially with larger fish. Slack on seven strand would provide more cable for the fish to chomp on with their perly whites which isn't a good thing.
As for the rigs, they are time tested and most, if not all; king anglers swear by them. Even with these rigs, you will sometimes get a bite and they won't hook up. This is the reason for the close proximity of the stingers. Either way, there is an fix, just freespool the line and that fish will most times come back and slam that bait again. I would say this is good maybe 60-70% of the time.
Sorry for the long read, hope it helps! Tight lines!
Lou
Team SET 4 Life
31' Cape Horn w/twin F250's
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Mingo
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| when i fish the pier all i fished with is 20# mono. but from the pier you dont usually use a stinger because you fish it different from a boat you put baits out and wait with rods in rodholders either trolling or sitting still. on the pier the rod is in you hands at all times and anything you catch on the pier isn't going to be a catch and release deal because you will be galfing it to bring it up. on the pier you use your single hook rig and hook it in the nose with your bail open and line being held with your finger. when the fish eats your bait let him swim freely with it by letting the line go. give about 5 seconds and then close the bail and wind up to the fish and set the hook only after the line comes solidly tight. the purpose all this is to put a very solid and strong hook set in the fish and not hook it in side or in a corner of the mouth. The mackrel slash and usually dont fully engulf you bait and will not fully swallow your bait on the first second or two and if you dont freespool you will just pull back a hook(also known a choking a fish in pier rat terminology) if you do this all correctly you will gut hook the fish or atleast hook it in the rearward roof of the mouth which is very firm and will also hold very well especially when you got to hold it under control for someone to galf it on the pier. all the great info with stingers and stuff greatly increase the hook ups on unmanned rods and is the only way to troll. You can also release large fish from a boat and not gut hooking is oviously alot more humane. also you have to be descreate with your tackle on the pier alot of competition so if you use a stinger, your bait will have antlers coming out of its back and all the others wont and since your bait is just sitting there it doesn't look real natural.( come with the nose trouble hook from under the chin and out the forhead/nose and dont use anything bigger than #4 unless your thowing large hardtails or bluefish) I know its long winded, hope this all helps
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Grouper
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bluffman2 (6/30/2008)
yes and yes...if you live baiting you might want to put the main hook in the tail and stinger through the nose ...that will allow the bait to swim more naturally and freely..
This is it remember to set the hook!
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Ruby Red Lip
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| If i were you.. i would definately go lighter.. i have a 706 spooled up with 17 lb suffix.. i use it mainly for slinging cigs off the pier.. but if i wanna throw a hardtail i use a 302 loaded with 20 lb suffix.. light line = farther casts... less wind resistance... and less water drag while fighting the fish... i'm fairley new to pier fishing... but thats just my .02
Bass tournaments
converted to...
ALL SALT
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Ruby Red Lip
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| Stingers on the pier are a little bit tough to deal with, in that you are always casting. I still think you can down size to 20 or 25 lb test, you should have at least a 200 yard capacity. I do think that on the pier you can have a little looser drag to begin with because you will be doing the over under dance with everyone out there, As for fishing on a boat, I did like the idea of the stinger in the nose, If the main hook is a trebel, I dont know why I have not tried it yet, but I can see how it would change the action on a live bait from being hooked in the nose. We put the hooks all over for other types of presentations for different types of fishing, sometimes you just dont see the obvious.
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