My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations James 1:2

If I take the wings of the dawn, if I dwell in the remotest part of the sea, even there your hand will lead me, and your right hand will lay hold of me Psalms 139: 9-10

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations James 1:2

If I take the wings of the dawn, if I dwell in the remotest part of the sea, even there your hand will lead me, and your right hand will lay hold of me Psalms 139: 9-10

There has got to be a better system than just counting/looking at numbers of dead fish in coolers.  SEEING is believing.

There needs to be 2 assessments; 1) for the amount of fishermen going after snapper, as nobody really know how many there are. The national saltwater registry will be done across the Gulf by each state I believe effective Jan 1 2010. 2) an assessment of how many snapper there are in the Gulf - there should be an insistence to count the snapper around the artificial reefs, oil platforms, and on the mud flats offshore of the 50 fathom curve. Once the scientists understand how many fishermen are going after how many snapper, then they can make informed decisions. Personally, I think the snapper biomass is much larger than what they are saying based on past assessments, but am unsure as to the number of recreational fishermen targeting snapper.

One example of the cafetria-style management that NMFS has employed is the punitive decision to shorten the 2008 season from 122 days to 65 days citing Texas' and Florida's refusal to adopt federal regs in their state waters. The data CLEARLY does not support that conclusion, and therefore they should reinstate the 122 day season for 2009, in my opinion.

What I would personally like to see happen in 2009 in this;

1) Reinstate the June 1 to Sept 30 season based on their "Not So-Final Rule" issued January 29, 2008; http://www.dmr.state.ms.us/Fisheries...egulations.pdf That would be a good start until the data can be compiled relative to the fish/fishermen numbers, and would loosen the grip from the throat of the recreational fishery somewhat.

2) Issue a federal Snapper stamp just like they issue a federal duck stamp - the saltwater registry is too broad in my opinion, and the snapper stamp could complement it, providing even more data that is currently missing. The duck stamp program is a very successful model to emulate, as it brought the duck populations back up by using the monies collected to purchase habitat. We wouldn't necessarily need to buy habitat for the snapper, (although it wouldn't be a bad idea...artificial reefs ), but use the money to gather data to determine EXACTLY how many fishermen target snapper. The feds could then send questionaires at the end of the season AND ask when you re-up for your fishing license, how many snapper did you catch in 2009, just like they do for the ducks. This could be a very effective, low-cost, achievable program that could be enacted very quickly for the private recs.   The electronic logbooks could be the answer for the for-hire boats, as the cost of a snapper stamp for each paying customer who only fishes once a year may not make sense.  The combination of the snapper stamp and electronic logbooks would supply ALL of the data needed, period.

3) Allow the states to manage their own state waters as they see fit - the power grab by NMFS to overstate their authority violates the 10th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, and as importantly, is not needed nor wanted.

4) Do NOT divide the recreational TAC as wanted by the proponents of the "SOS" (Save Our Selves) plan. This is just another power grab that accomplishes nothing relative to helping the fish - it's about helping themselves as the name indicates.  Since charterboat captains and crew cannot keep snapper, they have a ZERO percentage of TAC - 100% of the TAC belongs to the recreational fishermen and thus no reason for dividing the TAC.

All the best,
Tom

Get The Edge - www.Realtime-Navigator.com

Our good ole buddy capt. eugene deleted his posts saying that bob was full of BS among other things that were said.

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Jon

Tom Hilton has some good points as well as some others I have read here.  Once our proposal is public we will post it and hopefully gain support for it.  No plan is perfect and any plan will require some sacrifice by anglers.  Fishing is not nor will it ever be unlimited and I believe all anglers understand this and are willing to do their part to ensure healthy stocks and resources.  They just want accurate and timely data to base the regs on.  Once we have such a system, we will all be better off.

Help Save Your Fishing Rights Become A Member FRA  http://www.thefra.org/

They conduct larval and trawl studies which they have done for years where they try to do them in the same locations and same periods of time over the years.  They collect larvae and the numbers indicate the size of that year's number of fish as a large number indicates a large year class and a low number a low year class.  The trawl studies collect age 0 and age 1 red snapper which helps to verify the size of the year class and how many larvae survived till the next year.  They also do video and cage sampling in areas.  They use the catch data from both com and rec and they measure and weigh some numbers of those fish and also take the otoliths (ear bones) which they use to age the fish.  All of this data is collected from various areas across the gulf.  They do stock assessments which are now done through SEDAR (southeast data assessment and review) where they have at least 3 meetings of scientists, state and federal officials, and stakeholders involved in the fishery.  The first meeting is about the data where they go over tons of data, keep some, kick some out.  They then do an assessment meeting where the info produced by the science center based on the data and run thru computer models is discussed and picked apart and stuff added or taken away.  The third and generally last meeting is a review of the first two meeting and the assessment to determine if all the work was done appropriately.  The review meeting is run by a panel of independent scientific experts in assessments but not from the area where the species is being discussed.  Some times there is a fourth meeting when the 3rd meeting finds something that needs further discussion.  After all this, the assessment is run before the scientific and statistical committee which is a committee formed by the council of scientific experts from various universities and state and fed science centers.  They review the assessment and then make recommendations to the council about the assessment and recommend acceptable biological catch levels which the council then uses to set the total allowable catch.

Every one of these steps from the sedar to the council action is open to the public so they can attend.  The process is wide open.  As others and I have  stated many times, data is the key, especially when it comes to the rec data.  If the nmfs shows a lot of fishing effort then the catch is always high.  Effort is directly relevent to catch.  This is why we need a real number of anglers catching red snapper because if the number is known we will have a better idea of the amount of effort.  If the number of red snapper in known then we have the best data.  There is a way to do this.

Hopes this helps, as I said it is a simple explanation but is very complicated. 

http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/recreational/queries/index.html

"I aint as good as I once was...but I was good once...as I ever was".... Toby Keith

For anyone looking at the data it is not the raw (individual survey or observation) data but is a view on a data warehouse where.  I assume that the aggregated warehouse data was created via various loads and aggregations from the raw data that was collected.  The information looks to have been aggregated and loaded by time series and other various attributes (species, etc).  There is a make your own query section but you have to log in to access it.  Looking at the methodology used and various input tools, I doubt all the raw inputs (individual survey or observation data) are within one system but instead gathered by various databases and other means, scrubbed (put through some form of validation process)  and then loaded into the warehouse for further analysis. 

Mark Griffith

"I aint as good as I once was...but I was good once...as I ever was".... Toby Keith

Bob

as and average joe angler, to the average joe anglers out there...

i support a federal red snapper stamp.  it'll help count how many anglers are actually targeting snapper.  the cost of the stamp will fund the research needed to make accurate counts.  if you trout fish, wont cost you a thing.  if you snapper fish, you ought to be please for the extra couple of bucks to help create REAL data to help the resource, and your own fishing.

i support to continue regulating for-hire recreational fishing in conjunction with private recreational fishing.  it just makes sense.  why in the world would you regulate it any other way?  that sure aint broke, please dont try to 'fix' it.

thusly, i DO NOT support the SOS plan--in any way, shape or form.  it is a dilution of support to selfserve very few.  i have seen not one iota of data that would make me think otherwise. 

i support our local watchdog groups--the ECRA, the RFRA, the PRFA.  without a collective local voice, we are just keystrokes on the web.  if you are not supporting these groups, you are doing yourself a disservice.

i support our local marine officials.  without their local direction and voice, our local leaders have no idea what we want or need.  do you really want Grover telling tallahassee what we need for our marine resources?  yikes.

i greatly support the CCA.  without an organized, responsible, educated and EXPERIENCED voices, we have no state or federal voice at all.

and lastly, i am a proponent of gamefish status for red snapper.  from panama city to pensacola to gulf port to grand isle, if you want to eat a redfish from the gulf coast, you have to catch it yourself--either by yourself, or hired.  gamefish status basically saved the redfish.  while the snapper does not necessarily need the numbers 'saved', the regulation of the snapper does.  if you want to eat a red snapper, you should catch it yourself--on your private boat or on a hired craft.  reckon this, along with the snapper stamp, and there should be good data to base sound decisions on. too long has a TINY sector controlled a resource so great, for virtually no gain to the communities that built the resource--built with history, with actually dollars spent to build marinas, to build the reefs the fish depend on, and blood sweat and tears we go through every year to have to actually fight for our privilidge to take the resource we have so carefully cultivated.  make the snapper a gamefish, and 75% of the arguements go away.  get good data on who is fishing for snapper and wisely establish limts based on that data and virtually every arguement disappears.  i expect the snapper limit would go to 5 per person in a heart beat, if not more.

cheers.

drew

 

what you get, is what you get.  what you do with what you get is what is important.